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Thèse

Clone of Thesis : Allan HENRY

Thèse From 1 November 2023 to 31 October 2026

Voice control of a flying robot: exploring the vocal components of guidance to improve user-friendly metaphors

We assume that fundamental principles of voice guidance have universal aspects that we will try to discover and exploit, in order to design devices for controlling a robot by voice. We will first explore how people spontaneously interact to guide to an invisible 3-D object a) a person directly, b) a flying robot pilot. Of particular interest are the non-verbal components of speech that contribute to the most effective (intuitive and rapid) instructions.
The phonic sequences used by the guides and the joystick manipulation sequences used by the pilots in this first phase will have to be matched by end-to-end network learning. The emerging intelligence will then be embedded in the teleoperation system.
Our primary objective is to use the most relevant voice features to facilitate drone control by the operator's voice, and possibly to facilitate sound guidance for a blind person.
The project combines the respective expertise of three supervisors, in speech processing, cognitive neuroscience and robotics, from three Grenoble laboratories. The PhD student will benefit from synergies with an ongoing thesis on visual-auditory substitution (SamGuide project).

Supervisors :
Christian GRAFF christian.graffatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (christian[dot]graff[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr) - LPNC
Sylvain HUET sylvain.huetatgipsa-lab.grenoble-inp.fr (sylvain[dot]huet[at]gipsa-lab[dot]grenoble-inp[dot]fr) (Co-encadrant) - GIPSA-Lab
José-Ernesto GOMEZ BALDERAS jose-ernesto.gomez-balderasatgipsa-lab.grenoble-inp.fr (jose-ernesto[dot]gomez-balderas[at]gipsa-lab[dot]grenoble-inp[dot]fr) (Co-encadrant) 
Solange ROSSATO solange.rossatoatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (solange[dot]rossato[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)(Co-encadrant)

Keywords : robot,Human Machine Interface,target reaching,acoustics,voice,drone,

UGA - Plan Investissement d'Avenir (Idex, Labex) - IDEX - CDP

Thesis Perrine PORTE

From 20 October 2023 to 30 September 2026

Neural correlates of multisensory metaperception

Metacognition reflects the ability to evaluate and control one's own mental states, and to form accurate confidence judgements about what one knows or perceives. In recent years, sophisticated theoretical and statistical tools have been developed to better understand how confidence arises from a decision, whether it involves a memory or perceptual task (Mazancieux et al., in press). We thus know why we are confident after a correct decision, and how we are able to detect our own errors. The vast majority of studies that have characterised confidence judgements are based on simple tasks involving the presentation of a visual stimulus about which participants have to make a two-alternative forced choice. For instance, a cloud of moving dots is presented and participants have to report whether the cloud moves to the right or left (Rahnev et al., 2020). Although adequate to outline the cognitive bases giving rise to the feeling of confidence, these oversimplified tasks remain far removed from the decisions one is led to make in ecological conditions. Notably, the vast majority of studies in meta-perception and meta-memory focus on the visual modality, even though we know that our percepts and memories are in essence multisensory (Faivre et al., 2017). A few recent studies have begun to characterize the links between multisensory integration and metacognition, including comparing metacognitive performance across the senses (Faivre et al., 2018), in unimodal and bimodal conditions (Arbuzova et al., 2020; Charles et al., 2020), and assessing our ability to form confidence judgments about McGurk-like audiovisual illusions (Kimmet et al., 2023; Meijer et al., 2023). It seems to emerge from this literature that confidence obeys supramodal rules, involving Bayesian integration processes (Deroy & Noppeney, 2016). However, the literature overlooks a critical aspect of decision making, which is our ability to form accurate confidence judgments about the presence or absence of a percept or memory (Mazor & Fleming, 2020). Thus, we do not yet know the rules that govern the processes used to assess the probability that a multisensory mental object is present in the sensory environment (e.g., a mosquito in a room) or in our memory (e.g., the memory of a concert). While it seems obvious that such a confidence judgment can be based on several sensory channels simultaneously (e.g. the image and the sound of the mosquito; the view of the stage and the music played), the precise rules involved and in particular their agreement with the Bayesian inference framework remain unknown to date. A better characterisation of these rules will allow us to better understand how agents evaluate their confidence in high ecological value situations. Furthermore, collecting confidence in the detection of multisensory mental objects will allow us to better characterize different types of false percepts (feeling like I hear a mosquito if I see one) or false memories (hearing a loved one's voice if I remember their face).
The thesis will therefore involve developing an experimental paradigm in which healthy volunteers will be asked to detect the presence of audiovisual stimuli in which each modality is presented at the detection threshold, and then report the confidence with which they believe they have detected each modality correctly. This paradigm will involve developing new two-dimensional confidence scales (one dimension for each sensory modality). A later version of the task will be developed in the memory condition, so that participants first encode a list of bimodal stimuli, and then report the confidence with which they think they can correctly recall each encoded dimension (Tatz et al., 2021 ; Duarte et al., 2022). In both cases, detection and confidence judgements will be analysed using generalized linear mixed-effects models. Stereo-electroencephalography will be recorded in a second phase via a collaboration with the epilepsy exploration unit at the University Hospital of Grenoble to evaluate the cortical correlates of multisensory confidence. We will thus evaluate the existence of neural correlates of consciousness and memory that generalise across the senses (Sanchez et al., 2020).

Supervisors

Direction de thèse : Nathan FAIVRE - nathan.faivreatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (nathan[dot]faivre[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)

Co-encadrant : Louise GOUPIL - louise.goupilatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (louise[dot]goupil[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)

Keywords : multisensory integration,metacognition,consciousness,

 

Financement

MESRI - Dotation EPSCP

Thesis Téo PESCI

Thèse From 1 October 2023 to 30 September 2026

Inner voices: form and function of endophasia in auditory verbal aphantasia

There is a theoretical debate about the format and function of inner speech, also known as voice in the head, verbal thought or endophasia. Some observed variations in format can be explained by the functions of endophasia. Some researchers suggest that the auditory (i.e. sensory) format of endophasia allows us to become aware of our thoughts, to focus on them and to control our cognitive processes. Endophasia, in an auditory format, would therefore support cognition and metacognition.
However, recent evidence questions the cognitive and metacognitive functions of the inner voice. Indeed, a significant part of the typical population (2 to 6%) reports that their inner language is not accompanied by any sensation, neither sound, nor articulation or visual correlate. These individuals report not being able to mentally evoke a sound or a speech gesture, while their cognition and metacognition are functional. This mode of cognitive functioning, which seems to rely on amodal mental representations, has only been described very recently (2015). It is called auditory verbal aphantasia, and there is no test that allows it to be objectively assessed in an individual.
If it turns out that verbal auditory aphantasia does correspond to an absence of auditory correlates of endophasia, then theories of embodied cognition, which rely on internal sensory simulations, must be revisited. The aim of this thesis project is (1) to provide a means of objectively measuring auditory verbal imagery and attesting to its lack (aphantasia) and (2) to describe the mental strategies used in auditory verbal aphantasia during cognitive and metacognitive operations that, in the typical population, require inner language in a sound format.

Supervisors :
Hélène LOEVENBRUCK helene.loevenbruckatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (helene[dot]loevenbruck[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
Alan CHAUVIN alan.chauvinatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (alan[dot]chauvin[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr) (Co-encadrant) 

Keywords IAphantasia,Inner speech,Auditory imagery,Endophasia,Mental imagery,

Financement

MESRI - Dotation EPSCP

Thesis Clara CARREZ-CORRAL

Thèse From 1 October 2023 to 30 September 2026

Investigation of the influence of predictive processes on visual perception

Our visual system is particularly good at recognizing a scene at a quick glance. To achieve this ultra-rapid recognition, the human visual system relies on a sparse and global representation of the visual scene, called the gist. The rapid extraction of the gist of a scene would also make it possible to make predictions on the objects of the scene, thus facilitating their perception. However, this theoretical proposition is based on studies that present the scenes very rapidly and where only one ocular fixation is then possible. However, visual perception is a dynamic phenomenon that alternates between ocular fixations on an object of interest and saccades towards the periphery to fix new objects of interest. To be rapid and efficient when scanning our visual environment, we postulate that the human visual system would also use predictions from the gist.
The aim of this thesis project is to characterize how predictions based on our knowledge of the visual environment can orient future ocular fixations in peripheral vision, through the development of new experimental paradigms that will involve measures of eye movements. To pursue this research aim, we identified three research operations. Operation 1 aims to study how predictions from the context (gist) of a scene influence gaze orientation in peripheral vision when visual processing needs to be rapid. Operation 2 concerns the free and more natural exploration of scenes and aims to study how the predictions that can be generated during an eye fixation influence the following eye fixation. Operation 3 aims to study how real-time changes in knowledge about a scene (and therefore the resulting predictions) influence scene exploration. For each operation, we will conduct several behavioral studies where we will measure eye movements (duration of eye fixations, latency/duration and amplitude of saccades, etc.) using an Eyelink 1000 eye tracker (SR Research).
This project is based on the collaboration between Carole Peyrin (DR2 CNRS at LPNC) and Nathalie Guyader (MCF at GIPSA-lab). It will contribute to improving the cognitive models of visual perception developed by the LPNC, and the models of signal processing and eye movements developed by the GIPSA-lab.

Supervisors :
Carole PEYRIN carole.peyrinatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (carole[dot]peyrin[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
Louise KAUFFMANN louise.kauffmannatgmail.com (louise[dot]kauffmann[at]gmail[dot]com) (Co-encadrant)

Keywords : Eye movements,Visual perception,Predictive mechanisms,

Financement

Projet « EXPER » ANR-22-CE28-0021-01

Thesis Eva APRILE

Thèse From 1 October 2023 to 30 September 2026

GAZE-PREDICT: Study of the predictive mechanisms involved in gaze orientation

Our visual system is particularly good at recognizing a scene at a quick glance. To achieve this ultra-rapid recognition, the human visual system relies on a sparse and global representation of the visual scene, called the gist. The rapid extraction of the gist of a scene would also make it possible to make predictions on the objects of the scene, thus facilitating their perception. However, this theoretical proposition is based on studies that present the scenes very rapidly and where only one ocular fixation is then possible. However, visual perception is a dynamic phenomenon that alternates between ocular fixations on an object of interest and saccades towards the periphery to fix new objects of interest. To be rapid and efficient when scanning our visual environment, we postulate that the human visual system would also use predictions from the gist.
The aim of this thesis project is to characterize how predictions based on our knowledge of the visual environment can orient future ocular fixations in peripheral vision, through the development of new experimental paradigms that will involve measures of eye movements. To pursue this research aim, we identified three research operations. Operation 1 aims to study how predictions from the context (gist) of a scene influence gaze orientation in peripheral vision when visual processing needs to be rapid. Operation 2 concerns the free and more natural exploration of scenes and aims to study how the predictions that can be generated during an eye fixation influence the following eye fixation. Operation 3 aims to study how real-time changes in knowledge about a scene (and therefore the resulting predictions) influence scene exploration. For each operation, we will conduct several behavioral studies where we will measure eye movements (duration of eye fixations, latency/duration and amplitude of saccades, etc.) using an Eyelink 1000 eye tracker (SR Research).
This project is based on the collaboration between Carole Peyrin (DR2 CNRS at LPNC) and Nathalie Guyader (MCF at GIPSA-lab). It will contribute to improving the cognitive models of visual perception developed by the LPNC, and the models of signal processing and eye movements developed by the GIPSA-lab.

Supervisor :
Carole PEYRIN, DR CNRS au LPNC carole.peyrinatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (carole[dot]peyrin[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
Nathalie GUYADER, MCF UGA au GIPSA-Lab nathalie.guyaderatgipsa-lab.grenoble-inp.fr (nathalie[dot]guyader[at]gipsa-lab[dot]grenoble-inp[dot]fr)

Keywords : Eye movements,Visual perception,Predictive mechanisms,

Financement

PIA IRGA

Thesis Sina VARMAGHANI

Thèse From 1 February 2023 to 31 March 2026

Closed-loop brain stimulation for the study of multistable visual perception

The current project aims at developing a method that can stimulate different brains region according to behavioral or physiological observable. The ultimate goal will be to develop the close-loop method. Closed-loop methods are based on the detection of a specific signature in EEG (or other physiological or behavioral measurements), the fast computation of a reliable indicator of the signature and the triggering of an event which could be a TMS pulse or a modified visual stimulation.
We evaluate the robustness and the speed of such methods and develop new
indicators of local and distal excitability that will be simple, robust, and computable within short delays. The second step will be to develop a model-selected marker that can trigger events for either a specific pattern of neurostimulation or a specific perturbation of the visual stimulus display. Each
step will be validated offline at first, and then each indicator (trigger) will be estimated and computed online.

Supervisors :

  • Alan CHAUVIN - alan.chauvinatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (alan[dot]chauvin[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
  • Ronald PHLYPO - ronald.phlypoatgipsa-lab.grenoble-inp.fr (ronald[dot]phlypo[at]gipsa-lab[dot]grenoble-inp[dot]fr)

Keywords : Robotized TMS,Closed-loop EEG,Visual perceptual decision making,multistable visual perception,

 

Financement

Projet Vision-3E - ANR-21-CE37-0018

Thesis Sarah KHAZAZ

Thèse From 12 January 2020 to 31 December 2023

Toward the Unique Goal of Exit Signs : Being Perceived & Followed

Recent studies have reported that during a stress-hazard situation, emergency evacuation systems for buildings including emergency lighting, are not always readily perceived and monitored by evacuators. However, the human stakes of a well guided and successful evacuation are considerable.
At present, these studies (1) do not consider populations with various disabilities (motor, sensory, mental) or extreme age (children or elderly dependent (2)but essentially test the visual affordance (3) do not measure and model the effect of psychological stress related to evacuation on the detection, nor do they measure the understanding and application of an evacuation instruction issued by a lighting panel (4) they do not explain the neurocognitive mechanisms involved when choosing an emergency evacuation way and do not quantify the effect of evacuation signage characteristics on the cerebral processing of information.
This thesis project is part of the desire of a market-leading security lighting manufacturer to pursue research aimed at improving the affordance of evacuation luminaires in order to increase their efficiency. The work will help to better understand and specify the psychophysical, behavioral and neurophysiological mechanisms that determine the detection, understanding and application of an evacuation instruction provided by a safety lighting fixture.
As a first step, our research will focus on the characteristics of safety lighting fixtures that have the greatest impact on sensory perception, that is, those that most significantly activate the mechanisms of peripheral and central vision. Thus, these data will enable us to determine the characteristics that most effectively orient the attentional focus of the evacuators towards the evacuation signals. Our work, in a second time, will be to study the effect of the psychological stress on the perception of the characteristics, in order to consider the modifications of sensory perception generated by the stress associated with an emergency situation (eg., fire, alert attacks). But also, to prioritize the importance of stimuli according to the mechanisms of perception, especially visual retinal and central channels, which will also identify potential areas of improvement for particular populations (eg., people with AMD who lose central vision, people with chronic glaucoma who lose peripheral vision, colorblind, people with lateral hemianopia). The identification of important psychophysical parameters will be complemented by a functional neuroimaging experiment that will help to understand the mechanisms involved in the detection, understanding and application of the instructions according to the parameters identified and to develop theoretical models of cognition.
From a fundamental point of view, all these observations will make it possible to determine the nature of the perception-action coupling during an evacuation task, and to establish explanatory neurocognitive models, notably the role of the various central pathways of the vision involved (retino-geniculo-striated vs. retino-subcortical) and the influence of brain tonsils. Ultimately, these results will make it possible to propose recommendations for the design of evacuation lighting luminaires and to promote a modification of the current standards for the design of emergency lighting for a better consideration of the human factor.

Supervisors :
- Martial MERMILLOD - martial.mermillodatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (martial[dot]mermillod[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
- Sébastien POINT - 0381666738 - sebastien.pointatcnrs.fr (sebastien[dot]point[at]cnrs[dot]fr)
- LAURIE MONDILLON - 473406107 - Laurie.MONDILLONatuca.fr (Laurie[dot]MONDILLON[at]uca[dot]fr)
- Pierre-Olivier DEFAY - Pierre-OlivierDefayatEaton.com (Pierre-OlivierDefay[at]Eaton[dot]com)

keywords : Fear processing,Vision and attention,Emergency egress,Exit signs,Affordances,

Financement

Convention CIFRE Cooper Sécurité SAS (groupe Eaton) et ANRT

Thesis Ramla MSHEIK

Thèse From 1 October 2021 to 30 September 2024

Computational evaluation of metacognitive deficits in schizophrenia

Metacognition is the introspective ability to assess one's own mental states, and to form confident judgments about what one knows or perceives. Metacognitive disorders are described in many psychiatric illnesses, including schizophrenia, and are thought to play a role in the emergence of delusions, social withdrawal and mental handicap. These metacognitive disorders have been described in the clinical literature mainly through subjective tests and neuropsychological questionnaires, or experimental measures that do not take into account the other cognitive deficits of patients such as memory or executive disorders. Thus, it is not clear whether the deficits observed at the metacognitive level are specific, or simply inherited from other underlying cognitive deficits. Recently, we assessed metacognitive performance by asking individuals with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder and healthy volunteers to perform a visual discrimination task and then report their confidence in their performance (Faivre et al., 2020). Metacognitive performance was defined as the match between visual discrimination performance and confidence. Bayesian analyses revealed equivalent metacognitive performance in the two groups despite a weaker association between confidence and trajectory kinetics performed with the mouse when patients performed the task. These results were replicated using an evidence accumulation model that showed similar decision-making processes in both groups. We concluded from this study that metacognitive deficits related to sensory perception in schizophrenia remain to be demonstrated experimentally.
In the course of this thesis, we wish to explore metacognitive deficits in relation to various cognitive and perceptual domains in a more systematic way, using both behavioral and electroencephalographic markers. We will evaluate metacognition for auditory perception tasks (Dondé et al., 2017), for mnemonic processes of familiarity and recollection, as well as for social cognition tasks (so-called chasing paradigm, Roux et al., 2015). Our goal is to map metacognitive deficits in schizophrenia, and thus determine whether metacognition obeys domain-general or domain-specific mechanisms (Mazancieux et al., 2020). We expect lower metacognitive performance across tasks in schizophrenia, with less association between metaperformance and predictive behavioural variables, such as reaction times and response trajectories. Thus, the metacognitive deficit in schizophrenia would be the consequence of a lesser use of behavioural cues preceding the metacognitive decision.

Supervisors :
Nathan FAIVRE - nathan.faivreatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (nathan[dot]faivre[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
Michael PEREIRA - Michael.pereiraatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (Michael[dot]pereira[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)

Keywords  : metacognition,schizophrenia,hallucination,

Financement

Thesis Quentin SENANT

Thèse From 1 October 2023 to 30 September 2026

A subcortical route to the amygdala

Ledoux's (1998) model is an influential theory of the visual neurocognitive processing of fear in humans. It proposes that the amygdala is a processing hub for fear-related stimuli and that a subcortical pathway involving the superior colliculi (SC), the pulvinar (PUL) and the amygdala (AMY) transmits coarse information faster than the cortex would transmit fine visual features. This pathway is thought to receive magnocellular information from the retina, i.e. achromatic information composed of low spatial frequencies, sensitive to luminance contrasts and to movements. However, the elements that led to the creation of this model come from studies carried out on auditory fear conditioning in rodents and from the neuroanatomy of the macaque monkey. Applying such a model to humans in the absence of any certainty as to the pathways involved remains risky, and it is therefore necessary to assess its plausibility. The existence of patients suffering from affective blindness (i.e. capable of perceiving emotions in the absence of an explicit description) demonstrates that striated visual pathways are not necessary for correct categorisation of facial emotions, suggesting the existence of alternative visual pathways. However, the majority of the studies conducted in humans suffer from several biases.
Firstly, in patients diagnosed as having affective blindsight, the subcortical pathways identified in neuroimaging and electrophysiology studies are likely to be the result of brain plasticity phenomena and may therefore not be as significant as in non-brain-injured individuals. Secondly, the study methods used in non-brain-injured individuals are mainly correlational and therefore do not allow causal inferences to be made about the involvement of the SC-PUL-AMY pathway in threat processing. In other words, while the hypothesis that an activation of the pathway to the amygdala is correlated with the correct classification of expressions of fear is permitted, it remains impossible to affirm that this pathway is indeed at the basis of this processing or that it is necessary for it. In addition, results obtained by the Brisbane team in TN patient with affective blindsight could call into question the usefulness of Ledoux's (1998) subcortical pathway and its early activation during the processing of fear-related stimuli. Scalp EEG electrophysiological recordings of TN have shown that the right anterior frontal regions can activate before the amygdala, which is thought to activate very early in front of frightened faces. Furthermore, it has recently been proposed that contrast equalisation may influence studies designed to differentiate the influence of spatial frequencies on the classification of threat-related stimuli.
To this end, we propose, in the first part, to study the effect of contrast equalisation and of spatial frequencies on the categorisation of expressions of fear vs. expressions of joy using EEG and fMRI data. Secondly, we propose to conduct a series of experiments using ecological emotional scenes instead of emotional facial expressions. Indeed, it is likely that arousal is a stronger determinant of the response of the amygdala than the emotional valence of the stimuli itself. Finally, we plan to reproduce these studies using artificial neural networks in order to study the diagnostic visual informations that are sufficient for these tasks.

Supervisors :
Martial MERMILLOD martial.mermillodatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (martial[dot]mermillod[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr)
Alan Pegna a.pegnaatuq.edu.au (a[dot]pegna[at]uq[dot]edu[dot]au) (Codirection)
Nathalie GUYADER nathalie.guyaderatgipsa-lab.grenoble-inp.fr (nathalie[dot]guyader[at]gipsa-lab[dot]grenoble-inp[dot]fr) (Co-encadrant) et
Frédéric DUTHEIL frederic.dutheilatuca.fr (frederic[dot]dutheil[at]uca[dot]fr)(Co-encadrant)

Keywords : A subcortical route to the amygdala

Financement

PIA - IRGA (MaCI - EMO-GRE-BRISBANE)

Thesis Pierre COURSIMAULT

Thèse From 1 October 2022 to 30 September 2025

HW/SW co-design for on-chip incremental learning

A thorough reading of the state of the art reveals several limitations in terms of the intrinsic performance of the algorithms using artificial neural networks. First of all at the algorithmic level, artificial neural networks are very efficient in classification tasks but they suffer from catastrophic forgetting. Consequently, they cannot learn incrementally : learning is only sequential and the famous plasticity/stability dilemma cannot be solved since the plasticity of the system is dominant. It should be noted that so far the methods proposed concern therefore static image type data. However, incremental learning will take on its full meaning when the environment is changing and therefore particularly with dynamic data of the time series type.
During the 3 years of the thesis, the candidate will have to :
- Define the application framework of his/her subject, i.e. the database(s) on which he/she will work. He/she can start with an image database (MNIST, CIFAR or IMAGENET) on which the bio-inspired algorithms of the laboratory operate and allow comparison with other state-of-the-art methods. It will then be necessary to choose a dynamic database of the time series type which will underline all the interest of the methods of incremental learning. Indeed, it is in a changing environment that these algorithms will be most relevant.
- Adapt the algorithms developed in the laboratory to the chosen application framework, making sure to find the right compromises between their application performance and their material frugality. For this, it will be necessary to define the material constraints in connection with the chosen application. Questions may be asked such as:
> How is knowledge distributed in the network? How does it evolve with learning new information?
> What's a good pseudo-example? How to generate these good pseudo-examples to optimize the inference phase?

Keywords :
- Martial MERMILLOD - martial.mermillodatuniv-grenoble-alpes.fr (martial[dot]mermillod[at]univ-grenoble-alpes[dot]fr) -
- Marina REYBOZ - marina.reybozatcea.fr (marina.reyboz@cea.f)r

Keywords : deep learning,incremental learning,lifelong learning,

Financement

CEA - Dotation des EPIC et EPA (dont CEA)

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